Craig (00:00.788)
Hey everybody, this is Craig Garber. Welcome to everyone that loves guitar. I’ve got a phenomenal guest today, Jim Wilson. If you don’t know Jim, you will in a minute, but this guy is an incredibly talented guy. I’m not blowing smoke up his ass, but he is like a triple threat. He’s an amazing guitar player, songwriter, and vocalist, and he really performs all three of those at a real high level. And he does this across multiple genres, including rock, blues, punk, funk, metal, and even country. He’s done some country records.

country songs with Pearl. We’ll talk about that. Jim’s a founding member of the hard rock and blues band Mother Superior. The band released 10 albums between 93 and 2008. In 1999, Jim and the other members of Mother Superior were asked by Henry Rollins to back him up and it became the second incarnation of the Rollins band from 2000 to 2002.

Jim (00:32.174)
Mm-hmm.

Craig (00:51.74)
That band with Rollins released three studio and two live albums. It’s five records and another album filled with Black Flag songs. That was a busy three years. In 2015, Jim, along with Scott Ian from Anthrax and Scott’s wife, Pearl A Day, who happens to be Meat Loaf’s daughter, started a band called Motor Sister. That band’s released two albums. Ride was the first one, which had 12 covers of Jim’s original band, Mother Superior Songs, and then an album of all originals called Get Off.

Jim’s also been Daniel Lanois bassist and vocalist since 2002, 22 years. That’s like a hundred years in another occupation, right? Uh, in the late 2000, he toured and recorded with Sparks, notably in 2008, during their Sparks Spectacular, where they played each one of their 21 albums in their entirety over 21 nights in London. He’s also toured with Emmylou Harris and he co-writes and records, as I mentioned with Pearl a day.

Jim (01:30.082)
Okay.

Craig (01:50.48)
on her three solo records, and he’s got a solo album of his own called Now Playing, which he made with Phil Jones, who’s Tom Petty’s drummer, just a very well-known popular session drummer, and they had a host of guests on there, including Mike Campbell, Mark Ford, and from Muscle Shoals, Spooner Oldham. Jim’s written songs and played on recordings from artists including Alice Cooper, Meatloaf, George Clinton, Iggy Pop, and Lemmy. Wow, what a diversity there. And if that’s, as if that’s not enough, he also hosts

two online radio shows called The Vinyl Shelf and Radio Rewind. So if you’re not familiar with any of Jim’s work, please pay close attention to today’s chat and make sure you check out his music. He is like really in control over his tone. You can tell he really thinks about what he’s going to play, his note selection, even his effects are like, you know, it’s not the same shit every song like when I pick up a guitar, you know, he weaves it.

Jim (02:49.452)
Thank you, Craig. Wow.

Craig (02:51.19)
No, it’s true, man. He weaves them all into a really great sounding package, no matter what you’re playing, dude. So thank you for your time. I appreciate you coming on the show.

Jim (02:59.81)
Thank you. I feel like I should just leave now. That was good enough. I learned a few things. No, thank you very much. It’s an honor to be here. I love your show.

Craig (03:06.772)
Let me just tell her about you.

Craig (03:14.74)
Thank you, man. Thank you. Same here, man. Let me just tell people, I think I told you this the first time we spoke, how I got turned on to Jim. So my son, my older son, sends me a track from the Rollins album here, Illumination from Get Some Go Again. And I’m like, holy shit, this is great. And I said, who the hell’s playing guitar on here? And so I call up my son, I said, man, I love this. I’m gonna call this guy, Jim Wilson.

Jim (03:31.227)
Mm.

Craig (03:43.42)
I said, and first I want to check out his music. And then I, so I spent like, I don’t know, a week and a half going through your catalog and I’m like, Oh my God. So I, you know, text my son. I’m like, you know, Hey, I’m going to see if I can get this guy on my show. And I was like, then I said, Nick Jim Wilson’s coming on my show. So it was really cool that, you know, all these sources, it’s like the whole, I love the serendipitousness of that’s a word of how music works, you know, and how you come into contact with people.

Jim (03:57.07)
Thank you.

Jim (04:01.105)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (04:10.026)
It’s been really cool too Scott and Pearl have a son and he’s 11 I think and he’s been discovering the stuff that I did with Henry Rollins as well and he’s been asking me questions about it. He’s like, and actually when we did the get off record, the last Motor Sister record, that came from Scott listening with his son to that stuff and Scott said, what was your tone on that album? How did you get that tone? And I said, that’s my strat with my Marshall. Like my…

You know the things that I’ve been playing in Mother Superior for years or whatever. So I went back to that combo I have a Les Paul too, and sometimes I love playing my Les Paul, you know but something about that strat I’ve had since I was 15 or whatever and it’s just it’s like Every time I pick it up. It’s just this is my guitar because you go through those periods where once I started, you know getting to tour and play around and stuff I you buy other guitars and

But thinking like that, I don’t need that old guitar anymore, but it’s just that familiarity that, and it’s got a great, I’ve had other Fender Stratocasters same year, same color, and this one is like twice as heavy as any one I’ve ever picked up. It might have something to do with the great tone that it gets, but yeah, I’ve been ever since the get off thing, I’ve been using the Strat again.

Craig (05:36.576)
That’s amazing. That’s a flame one. That’s like a flame.

Jim (05:38.366)
And it has a few more Duncan Hot Rails in it, and that’s how it’s a little heavier than a regular Strat sound. I put those in when I played with Henry.

Craig (05:47.532)
Awesome. Yeah, it sounds phenomenal, man, on all the stuff you do. You’re welcome.

Jim (05:49.442)
Thank you. And I’ll never get rid of that Marshall, it’s just a magic one too. It’s an anniversary from, it’s the white one. It was an anniversary that came out in, I want to say in the late 80s. It’s a 50 watt. And I just crank it. Thank you.

Craig (05:54.708)
What mo- what is it?

Craig (06:05.472)
That’s cool, man. Yeah, that sounds phenomenal. It really does. All right, so you grew up in Delaware. What was your childhood like? What was growing up like?

Jim (06:15.662)
Um, you know, the I hated it when I was a kid because there was there wasn’t much there. Very small town. But I had my dad had a local country band since I was, you know, a little kid. So there’s always guitars in my house and my dad would bring home records. And even though my parents listened to country music, I was discovering other stuff. So I mean, it was there since.

I could read, you know, I just fell in love with the Beatles and mostly growing up in the late 70s and early 80s I was into 60s music. I really loved the Stones and Herman’s Hermits and the Monkeys and for whatever Beach Boys. I just really liked that era and current stuff at the time too. But I guess, you know, by the time I was in high school I knew that and it might have something to do with my dad’s band because I realized that if I had

Craig (06:58.781)
Yeah.

Jim (07:14.962)
stayed in Delaware, I would end up playing music on the weekends and having a regular job. And all my heroes lived in LA, so when I got out of high school and came here when I was 19, and just hoped for the best, had no money, had a van, and mm-hmm.

Craig (07:33.353)
So you, wow.

That’s pretty, that took a lot of balls, man.

Jim (07:39.322)
Thanks. Well, I actually have a second cousin in Riverside and he was my mom’s cousin and he was he let me stay on his couch until I could you know find a place in Hollywood and I got lucky the first job that I had when I got here was Tower Records on Sunset Yeah, so, you know which didn’t pay well, but I made great friends and great connections and learned about the industry and you know

Craig (07:57.14)
Ah, cool.

Jim (08:08.542)
and I was already a record collector or whatever, but it was kind of right when CDs were just taken off and that was an exciting time to work at the record store and that place was great. And I always say this to, if you would have told me when I got here that Tower Records wouldn’t be there in 30 years, I wouldn’t be able to understand that because it was like, no, this is gonna be here forever. But I met…

Craig (08:34.975)
Yeah.

Jim (08:38.206)
every celebrity that you can imagine while working there. And coming from Delaware, that was so super exciting to see Sylvester Stallone and Bill Murray. And I had a little personal relationship with Michael Jackson. He started calling me to make sure I was there when he came in the store in disguise because I was just like his helper and I knew where everything was.

Little Richard or you know West Side Story and we would just walk around the store and I would shop with him you know and nobody would have any idea that it was him. It was one.

Craig (09:15.232)
That’s why. How did he disguise himself? Because he’s a pretty like unique looking guy.

Jim (09:19.358)
Well, the first time that he came in, the first time that… It was a Sunday night. I was working on the register and he walked in and he had a baseball hat. He had like an afro. He had buck teeth. He had a mustache. Sometimes there were band-aids on his face and he had really terrible like thrift store clothes like…

old slacks and an old jacket. And he walked in the and I kind of looked and looked at him said, who’s that weird guy, you know, having no idea, you know, and then he was shopping around and he had a couple friends with him and I heard his voice and I said, no way. And then I kind of figured it out. I was a huge fan. I mean, Jackson five were some of the first records that I bought when I was

you know, a little kid, my mom would take me to the store and say, get a 45. And it was, you know, either the Archies or Jackson 5, you know, and a Partridge Feminacy. But, so I, you know, the cool thing about working at the record store too is you could, we were supposed to approach these people to see if they needed help, you know what I mean? If, you know, if someone was looking around, Bruce Springsteen’s looking around, you could just say, hey, do you need some help? And then, you know.

Craig (10:27.54)
This part’s just finally right on, man.

Jim (10:46.062)
you have a conversation. So that’s what happened with Michael. And I helped him that first night and he bought so much stuff that instead of making weight in the line, I told him to go to the back room, have a seat and we’ll write. It was in the day where you had to write stuff down. It wasn’t computerized. So they have this huge receipt, someone’s working on it and I would go in the back room with him and he would take…

Craig (11:06.46)
Oh my God.

Jim (11:15.754)
some stuff off and he would sign autographs for the employees. And I just became the guy. So he would call the store and say, is Jim there? And someone would say, Jim, Michael’s on the phone. And it’s like, I would try to keep calm. So that happened eight times. And then I ran into him three other times in Hollywood. And the last time was Hollywood Boulevard. He was walking with a family, like a young girl, a young boy, and a mom.

Craig (11:29.65)
Yeah, that’s…

Jim (11:45.782)
and he had a full burka on with his face covered and just his eyes. And I was walking with our old mother spirit drummer, Jason. And I just said to Jason, I said, I think that’s Michael Jackson walking right there. And he’s like, what? I know. So I walked, I walked up a little bit because I had left tower by that time. We were mother spirit started doing a thing and I walked up right next to him and I said,

Craig (12:00.548)
He must have been like, yeah, right.

Craig (12:05.108)
That’s great.

Jim (12:16.05)
Michael and he turned, he squinted like that, he turned, I said, it’s Jim from Tower. And he’s like, oh. And told the family to wait, took me to the entrance of the Guinness Museum there on Hollywood Boulevard and we just like talked for 10 minutes. And yeah, it was really cool. That would never happen if I didn’t move to LA. I always feel fortunate for that thing because, especially after he passed, because then it was just like, wow. And I remember seeing…

Usher on TV when Michael died and they said, did you ever, you know, did you know Michael? He said, no, I never got to meet him. And I thought, wow, Usher never got to meet him. And you know, I had these fun encounters, you know, just weird that he knew my name, you know what I mean? It’s bizarre. And not to keep going on it, but so that was Tower Sunset. After I worked at Tower Sunset for a couple of years.

Craig (12:57.144)
Yeah

Craig (13:04.036)
Yeah, very unusual contact.

Jim (13:14.238)
I got offered a management position at Tower Records in Sherman Oaks. So it was more money, it was farther away from where I lived, but I took the gig and I thought, man, there goes my Michael Jackson connection. And there was actually a girl that called me from Tower Sunset and said, Michael Jackson just called looking for you. I said, oh man. So maybe six months after working at the new one.

somebody ran into the store and said, Michael Jackson’s at the toy store across the street. So I decided to walk over there, stalker. And as I was walking to the toy store, he was totally, this is the only time that he was Michael Jackson, like, you know, he had bodyguards. And he saw me and he’s like, where have you been? And I said, I’m working at this tower. And he came the next day to that. I said, you should come to the store.

Craig (14:09.108)
Wow!

Jim (14:12.146)
I was upstairs working, I was a manager, so I didn’t have to be on the floor. And someone said, Michael Jackson’s here. And I walked downstairs, opened the door, he was standing there in his costume, disguised, and said, there you are. And it was just like we did the same thing that we did to the other one.

Craig (14:27.857)
Holy shit, that is so cool!

Jim (14:30.158)
Thanks, yeah, I know it is cool. I mean I got I asked him for Off the wall thriller and bad Autographs and I got an autograph from my parents and then I never asked him again, you know and it was so funny too because You know record store people they they’re too cool for pop music or whatever and I literally when I started working at Tower Sunset, I used to play Michael Jackson’s bad album because it was

Craig (14:32.264)
What an un- unusual.

Craig (14:44.789)
Yeah.

Craig (14:52.989)
Yes.

Jim (14:59.67)
Current record and kept having hits and the whole store would just go all the employees go. Oh not again You know, but then as soon as you Exactly James addiction or whatever and then as soon as he went in the back room They’re all lined up getting autographs and I thought you guys And of course they’ll see like well I looked at Jackson five, you know, you know, but no he was amazing and I got to do

Craig (15:07.304)
Yeah, play some indie stuff.

Craig (15:18.656)
It’s hilarious.

Jim (15:27.97)
Through his management, I went to the Scream video premiere, I went to the Dangerous Listening Party at the record plant, and I went to the MTV 10th anniversary filming that he did two songs. So I got to do some cool, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Craig (15:43.572)
That’s phenomenal. Just so he was really kind to you.

Jim (15:48.49)
He was super kind to me and I mean, for whatever reason, I guess maybe it was just because I knew what he was looking for and I had musical knowledge so I could just help him out. But yeah, there was like a trust thing that he just would call before he came in just to see if I was there and available to help him out. They’d box everything up and I’d carry it out to his car. It was pretty cool. He would drive himself.

Craig (16:15.72)
I think he drove himself. Wow. I think sometimes if like you’re with someone at that level that you don’t have an agenda. Sorry, my little cat’s here. Come on, Hazel. I think when you don’t… It’s my little feral rescue. When you don’t have an agenda, I think people really appreciate that. You know, that it’s just like, oh, I could disguise and it just… Yeah.

Jim (16:18.039)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (16:29.398)
Mm. Hehehehe.

Ehem.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I’m sure I was shaking. I’m sure I was so nervous, but I mean, definitely. There would have been respect there, you know, maybe other people. I must have held it together pretty well, you know, but. Yeah. And I don’t know. You know, there are a couple of weird one thing I always remember, too. We were he came in on a Saturday afternoon. It was like the most busy day.

Craig (16:52.158)
Yeah!

Jim (17:04.77)
and we were walking around the store shopping and we were in the regular Rock and Soul stuff and I feel like he was looking to Isley Brothers or something like that and it was he was standing to my left there’s me two girls walk up next to me and they go Michael Jackson and they were just looking at his CDs they had no idea and we were just like frozen like just

Craig (17:24.882)
Oh no.

Craig (17:29.045)
Ohhhh… Ch- Shit!

Jim (17:34.574)
play it cool, but I’m sure he loved that. I’m sure he loved it.

Craig (17:35.208)
That is, yeah, the irony of that, you know? Yeah, Michael Jackson right here. That is, that’s, I got goosebumps there, man. That was a pretty, that’s pretty cool. That’s a good story, man.

Jim (17:41.494)
Yep.

Jim (17:45.823)
And there’s a story on the when he died at the memorial Marlon Jackson talks and he says Talking about how funny Michael could be and he’s like I walked in Tower Records one time and Michael had this disguise on and I walked up to him and said Michael you’re not fooling me But I that didn’t happen when I was there. So but obviously, you know that’s it was nice to hear another angle of the

tower records and disguise things. Actually, something’s happening right now where they’re filming a Michael Jackson film with the family, and I think one of Tito’s sons or one of the brothers’ sons is playing Michael, and they built a fake tower of records somewhere here. And I’ve got two messages from people saying, but it’s supposed to be tower records in 1979, so I’m not sure what the story angle is, but two people have messaged me and said,

Are you in the movie? He’s like, no. I’m here if they want to call. Yeah. I mean, you know, even if I should just tell somebody the stories and like how it really was, you know. Oh, there was a, if you get bored of this, let me know. But I, there was one time when he was in the back room and we were waiting for them to ring up all this stuff. And we had a…

Craig (18:46.373)
Yeah, I would have wondered about. Yeah.

Jim (19:09.834)
a one-way window in the store, whatever they’re called, like the security windows where the security guards sit up there and they watch, look for shoplifters. And he saw the little closet and the guys, and he said, what’s going on up there? And I said, those are the security guys. They watch the customers. And he goes, can I go up there? And I said, uh, and the security guys were kind of separate from the record store employees, you know, so I poked my head up there and I said,

Craig (19:13.663)
Yeah.

Jim (19:36.906)
hey guys, Michael Jackson wants to know if he can come up and check it. And they’re like, yeah, of course. And he sat up there for like 15 minutes. And he said to me, this is so much fun, I never get to watch people.

Craig (19:48.696)
Oh, because he can’t because he gets spotted and he’s mobbed. Yeah. Wow. That’s kind of sad actually, when you think about like someone having to live like that.

Jim (19:52.488)
Yeah.

Jim (19:55.81)
Mm-hmm. I mean, and that’s, you know, I feel like that was probably a lonely period in his life. I mean, it was, we’re talking between the Bad album and the Dangerous album and that he’s the biggest star in the world, you know, but I can see it, you know, it’s a Sunday night or something. He’s just driving around Hollywood looking for something to do. You know what I mean? Go to the record store. Mm-hmm.

Craig (20:21.332)
Wow. Yeah, that’s kind of sad. Hang on a second, I’m gonna put this little girl out because she’s gonna be all over me. Sorry.

Jim (20:24.942)
Mm-hmm I have a cat to ease he hasn’t came up here yet, but hi

Craig (20:39.232)
She’s like starring in more and more of these shows. My little cat. Yeah, I know that’s their cats. That’s a really cool story, man. Thank you. That’s really interesting. Let me ask you this. So you come out to LA from a small town in Delaware. What kind, I mean, you had to have some culture shock.

Jim (20:42.282)
Yeah, no, mine’s right here too. I have one as well. He hasn’t jumped up here yet though.

Jim (20:52.546)
No, thank you, no, yeah.

Jim (21:03.854)
I came out here to visit for two weeks and I loved it and brought home tons of records which I ended up bringing back. And went to a TV show filming. I was watching the show before I left called In Person from the Palace. I think it was a Dick Clark production and they had live bands and artists. And I…

Craig (21:13.184)
Ha ha ha!

Jim (21:31.39)
you know, walked down Hollywood Boulevard and said tickets for In-Person from the Palace. So I got to see Richard Marks live. But yeah, that was cool to like start understanding Hollywood, you know, and just the different industries. And it was so different back then too. It was so exciting, like because Sunset Boulevard was split between music and movies. So there were record companies everywhere. All the billboards were…

Craig (21:38.368)
That’s pretty crazy.

Jim (22:01.058)
new albums, even if it’s from Sting to say, something’s great white, something’s smaller, just everything was… And now it’s all Netflix billboards when you go down Sunset. And I really do miss that music part of it. And there’s always something new coming along. And then when I started working at the record store, I was getting free promotional CDs and tickets to…

Craig (22:19.978)
Yeah.

Jim (22:29.902)
concerts and so I was loving it and it you know it happened real quick and the and it was so much fun to like you know call my parents and tell them all these cool stories and they were super supportive of it of me coming out here and doing it because they knew that I was serious and I wasn’t gonna fool around you know I’m not that kind of person I really came here because I wanted to do music stuff and originally I thought I would be good at

songwriting in the way of, you know, maybe working for a publishing company. I never really thought that I would come out here and have a band. That just kind of happened working. I met Jason, the drummer, working at Tower Records and we both like Kiss and we got together to play some Kiss songs and then on, you know, maybe the second time around I was like, hey, I wrote this song, see what you think of this, you know, and then that turned into a band. But I’m glad, I’m glad

Jim (23:30.942)
I always wanted to be one of those 60s songwriters like, you know, Neil Siddaka or Carole King and Jerry Goffin that, you know, sit in a booth and try to write songs for different artists and things. But, uh, Brill Building, yes, exactly. But I think that my music was too weird for anybody else to do in a good way, you know. And I didn’t want to spend time copying.

Craig (23:38.418)
Yeah.

Craig (23:43.272)
Like a Brill building sort of. Yeah. Right.

Craig (23:54.001)
Yeah, yeah.

Jim (23:59.042)
things that were popular at the time trying to, you know, once I realized that was part of it too, like I could easily go sit down and write a song that sounds kind of like Maroon 5, but I kind of don’t want to do that, you know. I like to, I like when the song ideas come to you that are natural and I’ve always kind of had that, I’ve always had little songs even when I was a teenager and stuff, so.

Craig (24:16.596)
Sure.

Jim (24:29.15)
I just thought that would be a good way to make money at music. And then I realized, I think, when I got here that I play pretty good comparatively, seeing other bands. And everybody was into Eddie Van Halen and all the rock bands were shredders. I was never like that. I think the 90s was when we got Mother Superior together.

the three of us realized that we could do things like the music that we love, like Jimi Hendrix, hey, he’s a trio, Cream’s a trio, and we kind of went backwards. And there were a few bands, the Black Crows, that were doing that as well, like showing their influences rather than trying to sound like everybody else. So when that became a possibility, that was like, okay.

Craig (25:04.105)
Right.

Jim (25:26.846)
Now we have an angle and we’re not embarrassing ourselves by doing songs that… Because when you come here and you meet some guy from a record company and he’s trying to tell you, write something like Def Leppard or whatever, and it makes you start thinking like, how can I sound like Def Leppard? And finally when you…

can figure out that you can make your own kind of music, just like Malmachast said. That’s what I think it’s about when you find yourself. And that took a little time, but that’s okay, you know, because by the time that… I love so much music. Like the Beatles are my all-time favorites, but I never wanted to sound like the Beatles, you know what I mean? I’ll use the influence in a different kind of way.

because whenever I hear something that just sounds like the Beatles, you know, and a lot of people go, oh, it’s great. It sounds like the Beatles. It’s like, yeah, but it’s just kind of a Beatles rip-off.

Craig (26:31.3)
No, I feel the same way as you do. And that’s one of the reasons I liked your band because I put it on, I’m like, Oh shit, this is like 70s stuff. I listened to growing up. You know, it’s like more in the lines of, it doesn’t sound like grand funk, but more in the lines of that, then I was never like a shredder sort of fan. I want to hear, I want to get, I want to get moved. And like it’s technically it’s great. And to see someone with that facility,

Jim (26:44.042)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (26:47.956)
Right here.

Jim (26:54.306)
same.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Craig (27:02.416)
I don’t like go to bed. I can’t hum that. You know, if I’m having a shitty day and I listened to that, that’s not what I, that’s not going to like bring me up, but something I can feel is like, Oh, that like.

Jim (27:06.346)
Exactly.

Jim (27:12.718)
Mm-hmm. Something I can feel, that’s exactly it. And that’s the kind of music that I like and that I like to create, you know? And that’s what music… Music’s always been that way for me. It’s one of the few places that I can find, like, actual soul that I can feel. And it doesn’t happen with all music, but when it does, that’s, like, the most…

Craig (27:18.153)
Yeah.

Jim (27:41.546)
truth I think I’ve seen in life because, and you know, again, there’s things that go along with it.

I’m talking Stevie Wonder and the Beatles, you know, and there’s still some great stuff. But I don’t know, I just, it’s always been, that’s why for my own music, I want that sort of quality as well. So it can’t really be, I always say that, you know, I can’t really write dumb down songs because it’s too dumb for me. I wish I could, because then I could probably have, you know, some, some stupid novelty hit or something. But, you know, but I just always

Craig (28:14.792)
Sure, sure.

Jim (28:21.346)
go for, and it doesn’t even have to be a certain style. Like you said, my solo records kind of go all over the place, which I like because that’s more like what I listen to myself by other people. It’s more the styles of music that I listen to. And Mother’s Barrier was the same thing, but we were a band so we had to all three be in it together. And it’s funny that you said grand funk because I completely understand it, but we used to be.

If anybody ever compared us to Grand Fog back then, we would be like, what? You know, but we told, I mean, it was just, we were, yeah, when it was happening, yes, no, absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Craig (28:55.32)
No, but you know what I mean though, you didn’t sound like grand funk, but that same, this is our shit, this is what we do, and it’s powerful, and you like it, cool, you don’t, cool, you know, like, and that’s what I like about it. Yeah, that’s what I like about it, as soon as I listen to it.

Jim (29:09.724)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. We were a good group and Jason was a great drummer. He passed away, unfortunately, from cancer a few years back. Yeah, but he was a powerhouse and he was part of what made that sound, you know, but we were so loud. I mean, and what happened was we started playing around Hollywood and then funnily enough, it’s

Craig (29:19.845)
I read that. That’s terrible. Sorry.

Jim (29:40.126)
about a five minute walk from where I am right now, there’s a club that was called Coconut Teaser and the booking guy was Len Fagan and he loved our band and he offered us a Monday night slot at midnight on Monday nights, free admission for our friends and we could play as long as we want. And it turned into kind of a thing, you know, like some nights…

there’d be five people and sometimes it’d be pretty packed. But people always knew that we were playing there. And that helped us really get good because all of a sudden we had time to fill and we didn’t wanna play the same thing every week. So we played Coconut Caesar. I always say it’s like the Cavern, the Beatles, we played there so much and then finally.

Craig (30:31.378)
Yeah.

Jim (30:36.146)
Even Henry Rollins came to see us play there before he scooped us up. So that was, you know, it was a good place for you could just tell people, hey, we’re playing Monday, come see us, you know, and to get people to come out on Monday nights was midnight. But they had free hot dogs. That’s true.

Craig (30:47.964)
Right, right. At midnight. Ha ha.

Craig (30:58.592)
Let me ask you this, you had said something earlier. You said, I came out here not to mess around and my parents knew that. How did you, like, how are you that responsible and focused at that young of an age? Because it’s pretty unusual. And it’s incredibly unusual for a creative.

Jim (31:16.066)
Think!

Jim (31:19.982)
I think because some of my heroes had died. Like John Belushi and John Lennon got shot. And I don’t know, I just, not saying anything against the dangerous element of rock and roll, Keith Moon. I just knew that I, you know, I didn’t have a beer until I was 21 because.

Craig (31:47.134)
Oh, wow.

Jim (31:48.21)
Yeah, yeah, no, for whatever reason I was like, and maybe in my mind, I knew I wanted to be straight until I could get something going. And yeah.

Craig (31:58.24)
That’s inc, did you have like older siblings that like, that’s pretty fucking amazing. God, I wish I had that.

Jim (32:04.514)
I have an older sister, but yeah, I mean maybe a couple like uncles and stuff that I saw, you know, live hard lives and who I totally loved, you know. My dad’s brother was, he taught me a lot about music and different bands and but yeah, there definitely, there might have been an element and also my dad, like I said, he had a country band and he always had it.

cast of characters, you know, there’d be some guys that were really good and really drunk, you know, and then like, you know, church guys and all kinds of stuff too. So, I don’t know, I think I just wanted to get something together before I, you know, found out that maybe I did want to be fucked up or, you know, just drink a lot or something. But, yeah, I’m not really sure. I’ve always been a little bit.

Craig (32:59.668)
Dude, that’s amazing, yeah. Good for you.

Jim (33:00.818)
on the straighter side. And it’s funny because, you know, when I did, you know, eventually I started, I smoked weed or whatever and all the, you know, you start, if you start smoking some weed and you go, Oh, I’m going to smoke this every time I write songs now. And then, and then you think like, you think back when you’re 18 and I didn’t do anything and I was, you know, pretty creative.

Jim (33:31.09)
4-track reel-to-reel tape recorder when I was 18. My grandfather died a few years before that and so when we turned 18 we got like a thousand bucks each or something like my dad’s kids. So I was like wow I can you know buy something and start making writing songs and making demos so that’s that helped too because all of a sudden I was learning how to.

Craig (33:57.64)
You had a purpose.

Jim (33:58.69)
multi-track and having friends come over and recording them. And then I dragged that tape recorder out here and the first Mother Superior demo, there’s a demo CD that came out before our CD that was recorded by me on my four-track and that’s what Henry Rollins heard that made him give me a call. So that four-track’s come a long way. It’s in the closet now, but I still have it.

Craig (34:22.697)
Yeah.

What a good story, man. That’s good for you, man. That’s really good that you were that focused, man. I really have a lot of respect for that. That’s like to be in.

Jim (34:28.472)
Thank you.

People say that, like, you know, I never really thought about it. I never thought about how weird I was, but this is a good example. When the last Motor Sister record came out, I was contacted by my friend from…

I’d say second to fourth grade, like when we were just kids, kids. And I would go over to his house and we would do stuff. And so I hadn’t talked to him for years. And then we were talking on the phone and he said, I remember you came over one day and you said, hey, do you want to write a song? And I said, what’s wrong with this guy? So here I am. Here I am like probably 10, like trying to find my…

Craig (35:10.612)
Wow.

Jim (35:14.902)
my Paul McCartney, you know what I mean? And I would always, you know, I would test my friends. If any of my friends in school were interested in music, we had instruments at the house, so I would say, come by. You know, I still have recordings of some of those friends from school, just, you know, because also, if I got some guy to come over and he could kind of play drums, then I could have more tracks to do other stuff if I recorded him and I put a bass on it at the same time.

Craig (35:17.04)
Yeah. Wow. That’s awesome.

Craig (35:45.216)
All right. That’s awesome, man.

Jim (35:46.366)
So yeah, I guess I was just, you know, I was just really into it. All I wanted to do was listen to music and play records and, you know, that kind of thing and just finish school so I can, you know, make my parents happy and then get started.

Craig (36:00.496)
Right. And your parents must have been very like cool, like good parents, I’m assuming, because you would to be that calm and focused and not have, you know, angst.

Jim (36:09.738)
Yeah, we always shared that music thing and my dad, he’s interested in records as well. Especially at the end when I was about to leave, I was 18 and I think the bars were 21, but I could go play in my dad’s band. Nobody would ask if I’m playing keyboards for my dad or something. So that kind of helped me.

Craig (36:13.66)
Yeah.

Craig (36:29.8)
Yeah, they weren’t back in then.

Craig (36:37.09)
Sure.

Jim (36:39.626)
raised some money before I left by doing a bunch of shows with them and you know, they and of course my parents didn’t know what was going to happen or where you gonna live? What are you gonna do? Where are you gonna get a job? You know, I got all those questions too, but I just kind of said do or die, you know? And thank you.

Craig (36:56.208)
Yeah. Thank you, man. No, I really that’s good. That’s a really good story. Thanks, man. I’m really happy that’s how it worked out. What were the challenges early on outside of playing a midnight gig on a Monday for getting Mother Superior up and running and then booking gigs and kind of like growing?

Jim (37:04.692)
Ah, thanks.

Jim (37:10.976)
No. Hehehe.

Jim (37:16.746)
Well, it just seemed like for a long time, we couldn’t get it to go any more further ahead. And we had lots of, we would see, there were so many bands that we would see lots of bands get opportunities and these guys were doing a tour of America and, you know, oh, these guys just got signed to whatever and we started to get some respect in, there were a lot of music papers, there was BAM.

magazine and there was a LA reader which had a bunch of music reviews and a couple other ones and we started to get some notice from people around town. We just kept playing and playing and then it got to the point where at the record store I had to start working part-time because I was doing these gigs and you know getting home at three in the morning and then having to be at the record store the next morning so that changed a little bit because

And then when the Henry Rollins call came in, before we were part of his band, he heard that demo CD and he said, you know, let me know if there’s anything I can do, I think you guys sound great. So we had just recorded our first proper record and we had some good supporters. It was mixed by Bruce Gary, who was the drummer for the NAC, the Majorana drummer.

Craig (38:43.257)
Oh, wow. Yeah.

Jim (38:46.246)
He was doing the Hendrix records at the time for the Hendrix estate, doing all those compilations and stuff. So he mixed stuff and it just sounded huge. And Henry did liner notes because we knew his great writing and he listened to the stuff. And I said, will you write like old school jazz album liner notes on the back? And he’s like, yeah. That’s how that started. And then eventually he produced our third album.

Craig (39:08.472)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim (39:14.39)
And then we became. When he did our third record, Deep.

I think we didn’t have any money so we had to record in I think three days. I think we had three days to get the whole thing done. To us it was like, man we wish we had time to do this. At the same time Henry was still with his old band and they took like a year to make a record and he hated it. He was like, I want to work with you guys because I like, you guys just get in there and do it.

Craig (39:45.012)
Oh, but you had no choice. That was, yeah, you didn’t, it wasn’t by design. It was by like, this is what, yeah.

Jim (39:48.342)
Yeah, we had no choice. But I know how that is because then when you do that three days of recording, then two weeks later the drummer or the bass player says, Oh, I don’t… I fucked up right there. I wish I had… And we didn’t have a choice. So once the record is done and it was mixed and put on a disc, then it was just done. But it was really…

Craig (40:05.912)
Ha ha!

Jim (40:17.09)
You know, we, because of our Tower Records affiliation, because Jason worked at Tower Records as well, we could use their distribution company, which was called Bayside. So, yeah, so that’s kind of what got our records out there, because we were doing them ourselves. It was just, we were led on by a New York Warner Brothers affiliate for like a year, and he kept saying, we’re next, we’re next, we’re next.

Craig (40:27.616)
Oh, that’s great.

Jim (40:44.906)
And we wasted all this time waiting for this guy. And then you call him once a month, and he just says, oh yeah, it’s coming, it’s coming. And then 12 months later, you’re like, okay. Fuck that guy, yeah. So that’s what made us put out our first record by ourselves.

Craig (40:56.264)
Yeah, fuck that, we’re done. Yeah, yeah.

Craig (41:02.26)
but you got to distribute it in tower. Oh, that’s huge, man.

Jim (41:04.33)
We got it distributed all through the United States. And it was in all the towers. And when I went home to see my parents, I was with my brother and we went to the mall that we used to go to when we were kids. And the record store had deep, the Mother Superior CD in stock. When I’m thinking like, you know, it’s pretty cool. Like this came from my living room and you know, made it all the way to some guy who ordered it. Maybe the guy knew that I was from Delaware. Maybe he, you know, maybe he didn’t, I don’t know, but. It.

Craig (41:19.438)
Wow.

Jim (41:33.718)
You know, you never knew. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Craig (41:34.24)
It doesn’t matter, man. You got a CD and a record store, dude. Yeah, right, that’s critical. That’s all. It’s funny, man, I spent so much time at Tower and West 4th Street and Broadway. I mean, I just remember going down there and just spending hours and hours and hours. Just like, you know.

Jim (41:47.041)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (41:51.874)
That was a great story. Yeah, yeah. Me too. Philadelphia was my first one. South Street had a tower records. So that was like an hour away from where I lived. So when I was in high school, when we hit 16, you know, somebody could drive and let’s go to tower. But man, to be able to, you know, work there, I got really lucky the day that I walked in there too. This is one more stupid tower story, but it’s pretty cool.

Craig (42:09.748)
Sure.

Jim (42:21.994)
So I go into Tower Sunset, they give me an application, and they said, fill this out and bring it back. So I fill it out, I come back, hand them my application at the info counter, and the guy goes, let me go get the manager, whose name was Larry King, we’re just one. He, let me give this to Larry, he’s in the back. And I said, okay, so he takes my application, I’m standing there, and this guy comes up to.

Craig (42:40.776)
That is funny.

Jim (42:51.438)
I talk to the guy at the info counter who’s not there at that time and stands next to me and I look over and it’s Elton John. This is the day that I’m, you know, applying for the job and I, you know…

Craig (43:03.408)
Wow, that ain’t gonna happen in the Rehoboth Beach, right? Ha ha ha. Holy shit.

Jim (43:06.182)
No, he had an account there, him and Bernie Toppin. They could go into tower and take whatever they wanted and pay later, pay every month or whatever. That’s how much stuff Elton would buy. But he used to come in all the time as well. And there was a time where I met Elton not too long ago and he seemed like he remembered me because I was always there.

Craig (43:18.419)
Yeah.

Jim (43:34.814)
The same way that I would lead Michael around, Elton had a guy that he’d been using there for years, you know, so. But yeah, it was crazy.

Craig (43:44.104)
That is wild, man. Uh, you know, I listened to an interview you did and you, and, uh, as you said, you were working in the record store when you met Rollins and he basically changed your life, you said, and. You toured with him for a few years, but you recorded over a hundred songs. And I, and I, um, I know you’ve told this story and you alluded to it, but talk about how that came about. Like when he just said, Hey, do you guys like want to

Jim (43:55.414)
Mm-hmm.

Craig (44:13.768)
be my backup band? Like how did that go down? Like it’s because of the quickness of which you recorded but like what was your reaction and what’s going through your mind I guess

Jim (44:25.494)
You know what it reminds me of the story? We used to rehearse in Hollywood and again, we had no money. And this one rehearsal place called R&R, you could go in there from 11 at night to 1 AM when they close. And for that two hour block, you can get it for $20. So once or twice a week,

Craig (44:51.117)
Oh my god.

Jim (44:55.326)
Our drummer would come over and we’d like hang out and watch like rock videos and play some records or whatever and then oh It’s 11. Let’s go jam and we were just and we were just really good. It like as soon as we kind of plugged in We you know, it’s so We Had talked to Henry called me. He told me, you know, I’m thinking of changing the band and would you guys be interested first? He said

I’m gonna make a solo record, I’m gonna do a couple tracks with Flea, which never happened, and I would like to do a couple tracks with you guys. But then we just gelled so well that it became us. So the funny story, when we rehearsed at this studio, there was another friend of ours named Chops, whatever happened to Chops, I don’t know. He lived around the corner of the rehearsal studio. So if he saw our vans parked there, he would come over and, you know.

check us out for a while. And you know, whenever he walked through the door, it’s like, hey! So one night Henry says, I told him we were rehearsing, I said, just stop by, you know, he said, I got some song ideas. So Henry stops by and we’re playing and Chops walks in out of the blue. And he’s, I could see in his eyes, he’s going, what the fuck is going on? Yes!

Craig (46:19.906)
What’s Henry Rollins doing here? That’s funny, man.

Jim (46:26.054)
And I think, you know, Henry had a couple of illumination. Here’s how it kind of went down. Like, Henry walk in and say, I got this idea and it’s just a guitar riff. Da da. And then we just wait. Da da. And so first I would figure out what key’s talking about and the riff, and then we would fill out the rest of the songs. Some songs I came in with guitar riffs first.

And I said, I have a riff. But it went both ways. Henry was really creative. And he was, there’s a song called On the Day. And same thing, it starts, the riff is, da, da. So he walked in and said, da, da. You know, that was his way of writing riffs. And so we went to Cherokee Studios and he booked it out. And…

Craig (47:13.108)
Ha ha.

Ha ha

Jim (47:25.846)
We were just fast. There was just idea after idea. What about this one? And they all just came out really well. And then when it was all said and done, he picked the 10 to 12 songs that were ready to release. And then we’d have this other batch of material from the same sessions. That happened both times that we did Get Some Go Again and Nice. We recorded probably 30 songs at each time. Plus…

Henry would leave at six at night and say, hey, I booked the studio. If you guys wanna record Mother Superior stuff when I’m gone, you can do that too. So we were recording after hours. I think the studio was getting a little mad because we were getting too much stuff. We were working so fast that we were getting too much stuff. It was very cool. Those albums, the…

Craig (48:06.288)
Oh my God, how cool is that? Wow.

Craig (48:17.704)
That was really cool of Henry. Oh my God.

Jim (48:23.218)
album that was released on Triple X and the Sin album were both recorded late nights at Cherokee.

Craig (48:29.948)
That’s phenomenal, man. That’s really

Jim (48:32.538)
And it was nice at the beginning too, because he didn’t want us to stop being Mother Superior. So we got to think both ways. We got to continue what we were doing and we got to advance by doing super heavy stuff with Henry, which probably gave us a little bit more opportunity to do a few different kind of things with Mother Superior as well. But yeah. And then…

Craig (48:58.314)
Yeah.

Jim (49:01.258)
He was just tired of the whole thing after a while. He loved, there’s a great, it’s on my SoundCloud page too, which we’ll talk about later, but you can listen to this podcast that Henry did talking about the days that he worked with us, and he said that was the most fun he ever had making music with anybody because we were into it.

Craig (49:21.312)
That’s, yeah, right, right. Well, the fact that you’re cranking shit out like that, so like boom, you know, it might’ve been as surreal as it was for you, it might’ve been as surreal for him.

Jim (49:24.778)
And then he just…

Jim (49:29.376)
Mm-hmm

Jim (49:36.026)
Yeah, that’s interesting to think of it that way. Yeah.

Craig (49:37.872)
You know, like, holy shit, I cannot believe what’s going on. I mean, you know, it’s like, you know, my last record was like delivering a baby. And now this is like, you know, oh, my God, I’m actually having fun here. Yeah, that’s pretty cool.

Jim (49:49.086)
Yeah, yeah. That’s true. And we were blown away. And we finally got to go travel and see the world because of Henry. So that’s what I mean. Like I was saying, working at the record store and then getting to go part time because we’re starting to do stuff. The day I actually quit the record store was the best. And there’s a funny story. I don’t think I’ve ever told it.

Craig (50:14.605)
Oh my god, yeah.

Jim (50:18.862)
good 30 second story. So I’m working at the record store and I give my two week notice because I know that this Henry thing is happening. I’m out of here. So two weeks goes by and then I had off weekends so Saturday and Sunday off and my last day was supposed to be Monday. So I have the Saturday and Sunday off. Monday’s there. I’ve already said goodbye to everybody at the record store and they all know that I’m leaving. So I woke up and I said

I’m not going in today. I mean, what are they gonna do, fire me? So maybe around 11 a.m. I get a call from my boss, Jim, are you coming in today? And I was like, seriously? Like it’s my last day. Maybe an hour later I get another call, Jim, we’re just wondering if you’re coming in today. And I was like, oh man. So I didn’t. And then I found out they had a cake for me and they were gonna have a party. And I felt so bad. I felt so bad.

Craig (50:49.532)
Yeah, right, of course. Yeah.

Craig (51:12.864)
Oh. Ha ha ha.

Oh man.

Jim (51:18.006)
Like at first I was like, leave me alone, I quit, you know? And then I realized I just wanted to like, have one last celebration. But no, everybody was cool. Nobody even remembers that except me.

Craig (51:25.294)
Man, that’s nice. What are you going to

Craig (51:30.688)
Yeah, I don’t think anybody’s gonna like, well, he didn’t come in on the Monday of his last day. Yeah, I don’t think anybody would come in. In the three years you were with Rollins, as I said earlier, you released six records, you co-wrote, you toured the world. What were some of the most important takeaways from that for you musically and personally? And also, once that gig ended, did you sort of like take a break, a well-deserved break?

Jim (51:34.643)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jim (52:01.926)
Um, not really. We kept, we kept going, trying to do as much as we could. Um, I think again, it was working with Henry made us be serious and straight and the work ethic was the priority. So there, that was a big takeaway of just the way that he worked and there was no

bullshit and there was you know We spent a lot of time on buses together and you know we all had We listen to music together and it was just great And a friendship, you know like going He Henry was like us we’d get to other towns and we’d go straight to the record stores together. He knew where they all were Went to Japan with him. That was my first time in Japan, you know

and just being able to do all those things and meeting people. This is a great story. We were hanging out and Henry called and said Ozzy Osbourne has a new record label, Oz Records, it was called Ozz. And they had an office building on Santa Monica Boulevard and they were having a party to start the record label. And Henry got invited and he said, can I bring the guys? And they said sure. So we…

the four of us go and Ozzy never showed up, I never saw Ozzy, but in walks Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins and we start talking to them or Hamerty starts talking to them and you know. They were just in Germany and we had done a TV show, a TV thing in Germany of one of our festival shows, a full live concert.

and they were showing it in Germany a lot. We saw it on TV when we were there, you know. And Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins said, fuck, we watched that German TV thing you guys did. That was amazing. And they said, Sim Kane, who was the original Rollins band drummer, Dave Grohl said, Sim Kane used to be our favorite drummer. Now it’s Jason McEnrode. And I’m glad that I got to tell that story because nobody even knows that story, unless you were there.

Craig (54:24.134)
Wow.

Jim (54:29.154)
But yeah, those two guys said that Jason was their favorite drummer at that time.

Craig (54:33.588)
That’s cool. That’s nice, man. That’s a very nice testimony, man. So, so, hey, I want to talk about some of the tracks that you. Well, he’s our new favorite guitar player too. I want to talk about some of the tracks you’ve written and recorded that I really like. And this was hard to call this out. Let’s start with Illuminations from Get Some Go Again. That track rocks and your guitar playing throughout there is awesome. But what I really love is.

Jim (54:37.484)
Mm-hmm.

And I said, hey, what about the guitar player? Just kidding. Right?

Jim (54:56.855)
Mm-hmm.

Craig (55:03.052)
I have never ever heard harmonics used like that in the beginning of a solo. And I thought what that was so that’s the first piece of music I heard from you. Remember? And I’m like, I immediately called up my son. I’m like that. I got to find this fucking guy who he is. And I was like, I I’ve never heard that. It was so creative. How the hell like what? Like, I don’t know what to sound like what inspired you, but like how did what inspired you?

Jim (55:19.089)
Thanks.

Jim (55:23.956)
Okay.

Jim (55:31.942)
You know what I think inspired me is the beginning of White Wedding by Billy Idol. Because he goes, tika tika, all harmonics. So I think that’s what… No, no, true, true.

Craig (55:44.188)
Yeah, but that’s not part of the solo. Almost you’re you know what I mean? This is like that was like that because it was so like cool. It was like the energy like poured out of immediately. And I’m like, oh shit, this is going to be fucking cool.

Jim (55:55.759)
Thank you.

Jim (56:01.198)
Uh huh, thank you. No, I mean, I’m sure there was something that made me go put that there or whatever, but uh… Uh huh. And maybe it’s because that song is so, um, hard hitting that it’s… That it was almost like a percussion kind of thing, you know? Mm-hmm.

Craig (56:07.448)
never heard that before or after.

Craig (56:15.132)
Yeah, it’s a very intense song.

Craig (56:20.072)
That’s interesting, man. So, and again, that was the first album that you did with him. How did your expectations differ from reality of the whole thing musically and you know,

Jim (56:37.018)
There were a bunch of mind-blowing moments from being in New York, visiting New York and hearing Illumination on the radio. When we played in Philadelphia, my parents came and they had the Tower Records on South Street and we were playing on South Street. So me and my mom and dad walked to

Craig (56:56.218)
Oh, that’s so cool.

Jim (57:04.334)
our records and we walked in and they were playing Get Some Go Again album and that’s whenever something like that happens it’s like, hey, you know, never. But the other side, it’s funny too because I mentioned that podcast that Henry did talking about it and in that podcast he reveals that the label hated it and they told…

Craig (57:14.312)
That’s my boy.

Craig (57:31.71)
Record?

Jim (57:32.662)
The label DreamWorks hated it. They told him that they hated it. And he says, I never really told the guys that because I didn’t want to. We were about to go on the road. So that’s kind of cool that I didn’t know that.

Craig (57:46.772)
That’s no, it’s very cool. That’s the last thing you want to know. Hey, our first record together, the label hates it. Yeah, that’s not really good for your confidence to go out on a tour.

Jim (57:52.862)
Yep. They said, it’s a rock record. That was, that’s their hate.

Um, Oh, and then, uh, I just remembered as well, um, that period was so exciting because like I said, Henry will call, Hey, do you want to go to Ozzy Osbourne’s record label party? And then for the record, you know, we were all Fin Lizzie fanatics and he calls and say, Hey, I know Scott Gorham, maybe we should do a Fin Lizzie song and Scott Gorham do the guitar, you and Scott Gorham can do the guitars. And it was like,

Craig (58:00.28)
Yeah.

Jim (58:28.622)
Oh, and then he made it happen, you know, and so that’s Mm-hmm Oh, and we met Wayne Kramer on that by playing on that record, too He plays on LA money training and that you know We worked with Wayne for a few years after that as well So yeah, it was I mean Henry was always really cool and you know, even to the point where? Here’s another story. I’ve never told before but it feels like the time is right

Craig (58:32.404)
So you got to jam with Scott. Oh, that’s pretty cool, man.

Jim (58:58.318)
I’ve told friends but you know never publicly but you know I was I Came up with all the guitar riffs and most of the song ideas for Mother Superior and stuff and we would all get together but we made a thing when we Got together the three of us Will just split everything you know so Yeah Yeah, and that was just trying to keep it together as a group so on that first tour with Henry

Craig (59:17.68)
I noticed that. I noticed that on the credits. Yeah.

Jim (59:28.138)
we were walking in the snow, I can’t remember where we were, but it was snowing, we were walking to a record store together and Henry said, you’re gonna split those songs with the guys? And I said, yeah. And he’s like, you don’t have to. And I said, I know, but we made a, we made a thing. And, but I always think that that’s cool. He was looking out for me and maybe as time went on, it made me realize, yeah, you know, the songs can

are more valuable than just giving them away to have people play them with you, you know what I mean? But it’s just funny. But I still split them with the guys when we did it. But he was always kind of like…

Craig (01:00:07.484)
All the records you’ve, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. Go ahead. I noticed, cause I look for that just cause I’m curious, you know, who wrote this song, all the records you’ve done are like that no matter who you’re playing with.

Jim (01:00:10.36)
No, no, no.

Jim (01:00:19.346)
Yeah. Yeah, except for my solo records are all me, obviously. And then Get Off, the Motor Sister record is, I think I wrote nine out of 12 by myself. And I was really, that was super exciting for me because I’m open for a couple of the songs on Get Off. Scott Ian had a bridge riff or something, so he would get some co-writes. But it was…

That was really cool that when that record came out, I was like, wow, I wrote these songs and I gave them to everybody and they said, yeah, nobody changed anything. So that’s exciting. But I do like writing with other people. And especially when I write with Pearl, we don’t get together until we have the ideas together. But I just let songs come out.

Craig (01:01:03.724)
Yeah.

Jim (01:01:17.602)
that I think would sound good with her singing and I’ll write some chords and a little melody and then I like home a demo for her and then she writes the lyrics for those because she’s singing them. So I like for her to have that space in it. So that works really well too. Cause I love writing words, but sometimes it’s like, I have to write the words for those, you know? Cause…

Craig (01:01:29.3)
Sure.

Craig (01:01:41.276)
Well, yeah, especially if someone else is singing. I mean, it is more challenging, I’m assuming. Yeah. Did you write? I think I saw it on with Nally Colt on one of those songs. I had him on the show here a few years back. I was like, I was like Nally Colt. I was like, because again, I go through all the credits. I’m like, Nally Colt, that’s wild. That’s weird.

Jim (01:01:44.176)
Yeah.

Jim (01:01:49.95)
Yes, yeah, yeah. You did. Wow, wow, wow.

Jim (01:01:58.826)
Yeah, he was. We played together with Pearl a few times, but he was in the early Pearl days. He was her guitar player when I had stuff with Daniel or Rollins or whatever was going on. But we did a bunch of gigs together. He’s amazing. And I, you know, when I saw Pearl play with him doing my parts, I was like, wow, that is great. Like he really like understood what I was, you know, playing.

Craig (01:02:11.918)
Okay.

Craig (01:02:25.065)
That’s funny.

Craig (01:02:29.652)
Yeah, I think his band just broke up because I saw him. Yeah, I saw him. He had a post. He goes, hey, I’ve never. This is an awkward thing for me. I’m without a band for the first time in years or something like that. Yeah, this is like, I don’t know, like in the last two weeks or something like that. You know, I’m not really on social media much. It was kind of random. I saw that. So, yeah. OK. Yeah, yeah. Very good singer on Sin, which you talked about Mother Superior fade out.

Jim (01:02:31.911)
Oh they did? Hmm, seems there’s trouble.

Jim (01:02:40.743)
Wow.

Jim (01:02:44.234)
Oh man.

Jim (01:02:49.294)
There’s a great singer in that baritone.

Jim (01:02:53.498)
Mm.

Jim (01:02:57.303)
Yes.

Craig (01:02:58.384)
wounded animal. I thought that was, I think it was a minor blues, right? And that, but it changes keys midway through, right? Yeah. Okay. I feel I’m so, I was like, so nervous to tell you that I’m like, I’m going to go out loud and say this. Well, like, yeah, I did. My ear is pretty good, but I don’t want to be like, you know, you know, like, I know what’s going on because I’m not a songwriter.

Jim (01:03:07.37)
Yes.

Jim (01:03:16.69)
Yeah, I haven’t heard it for a long time, but I know that the intro was definitely Stevie Wonder influence. Now the past is gone. Yeah, but with guitars and then it might have actually been two different songs, Fade Out and Wounded Animal, and then we decided to fit them together.

Craig (01:03:27.164)
Yeah, now that you’re singing it like that, yeah.

Craig (01:03:38.982)
Uhhhh… okay. Okay, so here’s my question.

Jim (01:03:42.974)
And whenever we went to Spain, people would be like, Fede, I’m working in animal. They really loved that song there. It was just like, do you know that?

Craig (01:03:47.848)
It’s a great song, man. It’s a great but that title is so like, odd, not odd, but it’s like so uncommon. I was thinking did something happen? Was there like the that made you come up with the name of that? Or like that was just I don’t ask about titles. That’s a great title.

Jim (01:03:57.794)
Uh-huh.

Jim (01:04:03.642)
No, I just like weird. I like weird stuff. And… Thanks. I know titles are something that I’m always looking for, you know. It’s a very important part of the song and sometimes a title can make you write a song just because you want to hear what that title has to be about, you know.

Craig (01:04:22.969)
Oh yeah, that’s pretty cool.

Jim (01:04:24.978)
Yes, I’m always, I mean, I kind of miss my notebooks, you know, used to carry a notebook around and writing stuff down now with our phones, we just, you know, but even the cool thing about notebooks is if I go through an old notebook for something, I see all these things and the origins of all these songs. And when it’s on your phone, once you’re done with it, you got to delete it, you know, oh, I didn’t use that. So it’s gone, you know, but I was

really trying and I always wanted to… one of my favorite bands of all time is Squeeze, the British band Squeeze. They have a guy, Chris Differt, who writes the lyrics, you know, like a Bernie Toppin type situation. And I just always… I like those bands that when you actually sit and read what is being said, it’s like…

Craig (01:05:01.745)
Yeah, sure.

Craig (01:05:09.267)
Yeah.

Jim (01:05:19.442)
oh, now I know what they’re talking about. Sparks is like that too. They have amazing song subjects. So just the more I get to have the opportunity to write songs, the more I want to make them different and always, you know. But I’m thinking there’s always a couple songs going on every day. It’s kind of something I can’t help doing. And once I have a song started, I’m gonna finish it. So.

I mean, it’s a good thing. Yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly.

Craig (01:05:48.596)
Well, you’re a songwriter. It’s a good thing, man. If that shit stops, that’s when you got problems, not, you know, yeah. Along those lines, lyrically, you have a line in there. My stomach was upsetting me. I swallowed too much pride. I thought that was great, man. What was that? What was that all about?

Jim (01:06:07.211)
Oh, see, I don’t know. It’s just me trying to write a good line. Thank you. Thank you. The rhyme helps. Sometimes you get the first word and then you say what rhymes with whatever it was before that, ride or whatever, and then you say, oh, pride. Well, what can I say? Sometimes it’s like that. How can I say something that would make sense with it? You know, it was…

Craig (01:06:10.312)
That was a great line, dude. Holy shit, yeah. And then.

Craig (01:06:23.677)
Yeah.

Jim (01:06:31.858)
When we first did that very first demo CD that I was talking about, one of the other guys that I gave it to, his name was Michael, I can’t remember his last name, he worked for Cashbox magazine, it was kind of like billboard type magazine in LA, and I gave him a copy and on that demo CD there’s a lot of, oh baby, and there’s a lot of, ooh baby, you know, and he said, if I could say anything, he said, work on your lyrics.

And I was like, I went home like, fuck that guy. And what I’m so glad that he said that to me because, you know, it made me realize that I can sit down and really make something out of it.

Craig (01:07:05.314)
HAHAHA

Yeah.

Craig (01:07:15.156)
Well, you did. I mean, you got some great lure. I love that line. My stomach was upsetting me. I swallowed too much pride. I was like, Oh shit, what’s going on there? Uh, but also in that track, you, I, you pause for like a minute and then you have like a coda at the end. That’s totally different from the song. You’re like shredding in there. I I’ve always, you know, I’ve, you don’t hear that in too many tracks, but like when you hear it, I always want to ask the writer, why did you do that? So I get, this is my shot.

Jim (01:07:20.652)
Thank you.

Jim (01:07:34.187)
Oh, right, right.

Craig (01:07:44.964)
to ask the writer, what like how did that get into your mind or like what just anything you could tell me about that.

Jim (01:07:44.97)
Haha

Jim (01:07:50.466)
I think it was just a little piece of music. I recently listened to a CD that I found that was called MS Demo Notebook and I just wanted to see what was on it. It was from the early 2000s. And there was a bunch of things that weren’t that good, but that we never used. And I think it used to be like that. We would just…

do everything. Like, the guys were good enough to where I could have a list of ten things and it’s like, well let’s just run through this one. And if it was good, it stuck. If it wasn’t, it wasn’t. And I think that end thing was like some piece again that we didn’t know what to do with. So it just became kind of like Her Majesty at the End of Abbey Road, you know, just throw something at the very end.

Craig (01:08:46.423)
Yeah.

Jim (01:08:48.31)
And my friend Scott Ackerman loves that little part of that thing. He always brings that up. But it was, uh, we were also at the same time trying to come up with riffs and ideas for Henry. So there might’ve been something in that was like, Hey, Henry, what do you think of this? And he didn’t respond to it. So we were just like, Hey, what about that little punk rock thing? You know.

Craig (01:09:14.516)
and let’s stick it on there, yeah.

Jim (01:09:15.806)
We’ll stick it on there, yeah. I gotta listen to Sin, I haven’t heard that in a long time. There’s the other 13 violets that Wayne Kramer produced. I listened to that after Wayne passed. And it was fun to listen to, because I don’t listen to those albums that much. But I wish they were on vinyl, but it was the CD era, so everything’s, you know. At the time, there wasn’t even hardly any vinyl being pressed, so.

Craig (01:09:31.924)
Sure. I get it.

Craig (01:09:41.436)
Yeah, back in the back of then there, everything was on CD. Yeah. Well, I love that track, man. Um, on, from get off the album, get off pain. Um, no, this is what motor sister, I thought that, um, it was a great melody, but some deep lyrics on there. And I was, if you’re comfortable, is that an actual story or a relationship that happened to you?

Jim (01:09:43.311)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Jim (01:09:55.158)
Yes.

Jim (01:10:07.27)
Um, there’s always a little bit of things, but I can, but I always make things more miserable and uh…

You can go anywhere that you want to in a song, you know, and it can be part truth or whatever. I’ve always liked sad songs, and I knew that when I had that little opening chord sequence that it would have to be a sad one. And I think it probably even started as a, something I was thinking as a solo thing because it wasn’t super heavy, but then…

when we got together as a band, it was like, oh, we can really do the dynamic thing up and down and really make the punchy parts punchy. But I just, no, I mean, you know, things happen in my life that might inspire something, but I just really got into the idea that pain is my only friend. So the only person that is around is pain, you know, so.

Craig (01:11:14.14)
Yeah, yeah.

Jim (01:11:18.035)
and you hate it, but in some ways you kind of like it too. You like being sad or whatever, you know. But it’s not, you know, whenever, I did a song with Phil Jones called My Dreams, and that one has similar really sad lyrics, I say.

Craig (01:11:23.872)
Sure.

Jim (01:11:41.154)
about the leaves, you know, and the leaves are falling free. And you know, it’s real sad. And Phil Jones called me, he’s like, is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, what do you mean? He’s like, this song is so sad. And I said, oh, okay. And he said, no, no. I was trying to write like a John Lennon thing, you know. And my dreams will never be reality or whatever, you know. And yeah, yeah. But that’s good, you know.

Craig (01:11:55.784)
Ah!

Craig (01:11:59.283)
Ah, that’s so funny.

Is everything okay? Yeah, what the fuck are you talking about?

Jim (01:12:09.002)
I mean, I’m a sucker for, you know, I mean, it’s kind of like, I guess people probably asked Paul McCartney about yesterday, like, who’s that about? You know what I mean? But it’s the same thing. You can just kind of, you can make up characters and songs. You can, you know, you can, if you, if you’re like pissed off at somebody, you can put a little message on one line for that person and you know, they’ll never even know, you know. So it’s.

Craig (01:12:34.012)
Yeah, that’s funny. That’s cool. That’s the creativity of what you do, man, which is really thank you for letting me in on that because it’s just the kind of the dime just dropped on me. That’s the creativity isn’t in writing the melody. It’s in everything you’re doing. It’s like, hey, I’m going to create this story. You know, I want to create. Yeah, that’s really cool. Thank you. Yeah, that’s awesome.

Jim (01:12:51.394)
Mm-hmm. No, thank you, thank you. I spend a lot of time on lyrics and trying to make them, you know, first of all make sense, you know, if it’s, it doesn’t have to be like a story or whatever, but it has to have some kind of meaning and when it’s a finished piece, the title should sum up what it’s about, you know. So, you know, and I like…

Craig (01:13:17.577)
Yeah.

Jim (01:13:23.198)
relationship songs because it’s easy for me and for other people to relate to. I’m not very good at say like Rush kind of lyrics, you know, like songs about spaceships and things like that. I’m not really good at that. So my… and for me it all comes from the blues and from country music too, you know, just all the great heartbreak George Jones songs and Conway Twitty and…

Craig (01:13:29.94)
Sure.

Jim (01:13:52.354)
you know, that kind of stuff. So, like I said, when the song is sad, like, na-na-na, I go, okay, well, this has pretty much got to be a sad song. And those Motor Sister ones came fast because I just was so excited to have the opportunity to do another record of original material because the first one was Mother Superior songs.

And we talked about making a second record and it was like, well, we need songs. And I just went into this mode of like, if you want songs, you got them, you know what I mean? So, mm-hmm.

Craig (01:14:30.696)
Let’s do it. Yeah. Well, you know, it’s interesting because I’m sure people say to you something like, you know, you said you take a lot of time with it. And of course, you know, people make this misconception about anything that’s kind of good creatively. They’re like, man, you just crank those out. And if they knew how many fucking hours you’re probably spending on, like, I got to get these two words. They’re just, you know, I wake up at night because these two, the something’s, you know, and people don’t realize what’s involved in smoothing.

Jim (01:14:52.575)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Craig (01:15:00.596)
things out. In fact, it’s the opposite. The better it sounds, the longer it took not like you cranked it out. Yeah, I just cranked it out. Yeah.

Jim (01:15:07.098)
The only thing that I like is when there’s a deadline, like recording with Phil Jones. He loves my songs and he’ll say, you got any songs? And I’ll say, yeah, I got a few things. And he’ll say, let’s do Tuesday. And I really like that because it’s like, I got to finish this by Tuesday. You know what I mean? And then sometimes you record it and you go, oh, I should have said that. You know, there’s a few of those. Not anything.

Craig (01:15:25.489)
Yeah.

Craig (01:15:33.732)
You can say that about everything you’ve ever done. How many legit mistakes, I’m 60, I’ve made enough mistakes, and I can’t sit here and say, I mean, I wish I would have done, it’s like, all you got is now, man. It’s like, do the best you can with the tools you have. And then you can.

Jim (01:15:35.989)
Yeah.

Jim (01:15:41.567)
He-

Jim (01:15:46.565)
Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm.

Jim (01:15:51.103)
Yeah, and there’s always going to be another opportunity to do something different next time, you know.

Craig (01:15:54.052)
Yeah. Yeah, definitely, man. The vocals are great in that track too. And so is the outro, the solo that you have. Is that you and Pearl singing together on that? Yeah, that was really good. And then talk about a set.

Jim (01:16:05.258)
Yes. Thank you. And that comes from working with all the years with Daniel and touring with Emmylou and stuff too. I’ve gotten really good at writing melodies that can have harmonies. So when we did the Get Off record, I said to Pearl, I said, let’s try to sing as much together as we can. If there’s a harmony available, let’s put all those in there.

Craig (01:16:33.052)
Yeah, well, this is that was beautiful to end that track man. And then off of the Pearl record, little immaculate white Fox, this song mama. Was that like about a dysfunctional mother? I’m going to stop asking you what your lyrics are about. Okay. That was a great ballad, man.

Jim (01:16:35.416)
Thanks.

Jim (01:16:41.591)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (01:16:47.114)
Well, that’s Pearl’s lyrics. That’s Pearl’s lyrics. But yes, I think it is. But I don’t want to speak for her, but yeah, we still play that one. It’s always so powerful. Thank you.

Craig (01:16:56.484)
Um.

Craig (01:17:00.416)
great song, man. Well, awesome. You did something. I don’t even know if you remember this, but the way you played the bar chords on there, you know, especially towards the end, you know what I’m talking about? Like most people would have just like, you know, played a bar chord and bar chord and let it ring for two beats. You broke it up.

Jim (01:17:15.711)
Yes.

Jim (01:17:23.086)
Mm-hmm. Thanks.

Craig (01:17:24.924)
You know, like you maybe did like a dotted eighth or then like a, or, you know, dotted eighth and then a sixteenth at the end of the second beat. And it really made a huge difference in that track. I don’t was like, do you know what I’m talking about? Cause it was, yeah, that was really cool.

Jim (01:17:32.721)
Yeah.

Jim (01:17:37.602)
Thank you. I do, I do, yeah, yeah. There’s a few, because I use little figures on the high strings. And I think some of that is P. Townsend influence too, because there’s some great who songs where the bass will just be driving on a D and he’ll be putting all these chords behind it. Yeah, so I think a lot of that stuff came from like.

Craig (01:18:01.548)
He’s phenomenal. He’s an amazing songwriter. That guy.

Jim (01:18:06.494)
It could be, glee, you know, that kind of stuff, and then still have the heavy open D over top of it.

Craig (01:18:15.9)
Yeah, I noticed that because it made a real huge difference in the, just the power of that, the vibe of that track.

Jim (01:18:22.506)
Yeah, that’s a good one. I like Mama, too.

Craig (01:18:23.792)
Yeah. Top three musical experiences you’ve had, Jim, and what made them so much fun?

Jim (01:18:30.41)
Oh shit.

Craig (01:18:32.186)
Hahaha!

Jim (01:18:35.706)
Um, well, recording all night with George Clinton was pretty amazing. That was because I remember waking up the next morning going, I recorded with George Clinton last night. Nothing has been released.

Craig (01:18:52.476)
What was that on?

Craig (01:18:57.095)
No.

Jim (01:18:58.578)
We did songs for a funkadelic record. And I saw George at NAMM maybe five years ago, right before COVID or whatever. And he said, it’s coming out and still hasn’t come out.

Craig (01:19:09.012)
How did you even get that gig? Oh wow.

Jim (01:19:10.634)
Henry, and there’s a track with Henry too called Ass Wipe. I have a rough mix of Ass Wipe. It’s amazing. And we did a, and then Henry went home. And we did a funk version of Whole Lotta Shakin’ going on because George said that was the first record that he ever bought. And I would love to hear that. And so Ass Wipe.

Craig (01:19:17.497)
Hahaha!

Craig (01:19:23.293)
Call your mom with that one. Hey mom, you should check out this track. I wrote

Craig (01:19:35.624)
Wow. Yeah, that would be amazing.

Jim (01:19:40.782)
came out on YouTube a completely different mix from what I have. And the person who put it on YouTube said, unreleased George Clinton with Anthony from the Chili Peppers. Well, it was Rollins. So I got in touch with the guy on YouTube. I said, where did you get this, number one? And number two, that’s not Anthony. It’s Henry Rollins. I’m playing guitar on this. And he said that he bought some, somebody bought some reels of outtakes from.

Craig (01:20:02.58)
Yeah.

Jim (01:20:10.254)
George Clinton and they were just like, you know, he had like five or six other tracks and he let me hear them and I said, no, none of those are me. So, you know, it got mixed for something and it just, but the version that’s on YouTube is there but it doesn’t sound that good. It sounds thin and, you know, it’s not a real mix. But I don’t know, that was just like, you know, I’ve been a Parliament Funkadelic fan my whole life. So just…

Craig (01:20:21.833)
That’s weird.

Jim (01:20:39.558)
knowing that happened. And I know once we hang up I’ll say, oh wait I forgot about whatever. But again Japan, as a record collector I always collected Japanese pressings and to be able to go to Japan and play, I’ve been to Japan eight times now, different acts like twice with Henry, twice with Sparks, Daniel, Terry Reed, Mother Superior toward Japan. But that to me is like, feels like

Craig (01:20:50.911)
Yeah.

Jim (01:21:10.114)
did something. If these music fanatics in Japan know of your existence, then things are good.

Craig (01:21:18.972)
Yeah, that’s pretty cool. Did you buy any guitars there, man? Cause there’s so many cool

Jim (01:21:21.766)
I never did. I don’t even think I’ve been to a music shop. I’m always going to the record stores there and spending first. And by the time I spent all my money on records, then I’m like, okay, what am I going to eat? And the Sparks, playing 21 albums with Sparks in London. I was in Sparks fan club when I was in Delaware, you know, in high school and they were my favorite band.

Craig (01:21:26.247)
Yeah, yeah.

Craig (01:21:29.865)
I think I’m nothing like that. Freaker’s talk. That’s funny.

Craig (01:21:47.428)
Oh my god, so that was like a fantasy come true for you.

Jim (01:21:50.15)
I mean, whenever Sparks were on TV, I would make my family like, Sparks coming on, you know? And so, yeah, and that was… Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you had to catch it live, yep. But I did a little bit, I played on a couple of Sparks records and did… The original thing was I met Mother… It’s turning into a long story, but Mother Superior did a song called Four Walls and

Craig (01:21:56.748)
That was back in the day when you had one TV in the house. Right. Yeah. Of course. Yes. Right. That’s cool.

Jim (01:22:19.054)
Tony Viscani who produced Sparks and Thin Lizzy and Bowie and T-Rex, he did a string arrangement for us on that song. And then he was super cool. He would come to the Rollins band shows and he mentioned, I told him that Sparks is one of my favorite bands and the record that he did, Indiscreet, is like their white album. And he said, oh, do you know them? I said, no. And he said, oh, you should know them. And I thought, oh, okay.

Craig (01:22:21.491)
Oh, yeah.

Craig (01:22:47.428)
Okay. Noted.

Jim (01:22:49.162)
So then months later he’s in LA, Tony’s in LA and he says he’s having his birthday party at this Japanese restaurant and he invited Mother Superior and I thought, okay, LA, I bet you Sparks are going to be there. So I actually had to sit next to Russell, the lead singer of Sparks, the first time that I met him and I’m like, you know, just fanboy and I’m trying to act cool.

Craig (01:23:14.004)
trying not to be like, yeah, right, right.

Jim (01:23:17.322)
And we exchanged numbers and then they got asked by Morrissey to come do this, their 1974 album, Come On To My House in London for his meltdown festival he curated. Morrissey did. So I just casually said to Russell, well, I know the album by heart if you’re looking for anybody. And he said, we’re looking for lead guitar. And I said, so I went over there and I had to audition to Russell just playing along with the CD.

and got the gig and then after doing some gigs with him and stuff he called and said we have this crazy idea of doing all they’re about to release their 21st album he’s like we’re going to do every album you know one album a night and they were like we can’t do it without you and it’s like well I know it I know them all you know so I mean I didn’t know them they’re they were all here I know every song

Craig (01:24:07.22)
Wow.

Craig (01:24:11.008)
That’s a lot of shit to learn, man.

Jim (01:24:15.114)
and I’ve listened to them a lot, but I did have to sit down and like figure things out.

Craig (01:24:18.328)
Knowing the song and playing it or not, you know, there’s a lot more. Yeah Wow

Jim (01:24:21.382)
It was so much fun. And I mean, for a fan like me, like when we started the first couple of nights, nobody knew who I was. And they would, you know, the show would finish with the crowd going, Ron, and Russell, Russell. And by the end of the whole thing, there were gym chants. And there was a group of Sparks fans in the front row that started the Jim Wilson fan club, and they all put on.

Craig (01:24:41.905)
Ah, that’s so cool.

Jim (01:24:49.218)
they had these fake beards that they put on, they’d be in the show. It was amazing. So that was, you know, to be accepted like that and to be able to say, yeah, pretty much any Sparks record that I listened to, I like, I played this on stage, you know.

Craig (01:24:51.712)
Ha! That is so cool, man. That’s really cool.

Craig (01:25:06.48)
Yeah, that’s awesome, man. That’s also, I’m a marketing guy, and as soon as I read that, that they did 20, that’s such a great marketing ploy too, because if you got a diehard fan, each of them are gonna have five favorite albums they’ve gotta see. So I’m gonna go, I’ve got to, it’s a great way to sell a lot of tickets, man. Really is very clever.

Jim (01:25:21.28)
Yes.

Jim (01:25:26.494)
Mm-hmm. There was the golden ticket to where you can get to but not everybody could take a whole month off work and be there for but a few people did but then I met like, you know Joe Elliott from Def Leppard is a huge Sparks fan and I he came for the two albums that he loves Come on to my house and propaganda and that led to us being friends I mean the first night that I met Joe we went back to his hotel and we were drinking at the bar together and

And now he plays my stuff on his radio show. And, you know, he, when Def Lepper did the tour before the stadium tour, he got the crew so into Motor Sister that he said, I didn’t want to tell you this, but they’re setting up our stage every night to the Motor Sister album. That was their like go-to like listening thing. And Joe’s been so cool to me. And, you know, he loves Motor Sister. He loves my solo stuff. When he played my

Craig (01:26:13.553)
Oh, that’s awesome.

Jim (01:26:25.318)
solo thing on his radio show for Through My Eyes, he said, he played with Sparks and then he plays and he’s got a fantastic solo career. And it was like, yes, I got a fantastic solo career.

Craig (01:26:35.784)
That’s really nice. That’s cool. I had, I had Phil, Phil Collin on this show. He’s a pretty funny, funny guy. Yeah. He’s a funny dude.

Jim (01:26:43.498)
I’ve only met Phil once, but yeah. That’s the thing with Def Leppard too, when you go to the shows and you go backstage, Joe has his own dress and we’re on his own bus, so I never see the other guys. It’s always just like, I hang with Joe. But I did meet Phil once and he was super nice. Great talk there.

Craig (01:26:55.261)
Right. Yeah. He was very funny actually. Yeah. He’s a good guitar player. Okay. So, okay. Bootsy, Sparks, and the second one was, I’m sorry, Goin’ Japan a bunch of times. Okay. Very cool. What do you think, which of your personality traits do you feel have contributed to your success or allowed you to become successful?

Jim (01:27:10.203)
Oh, Japan.

Jim (01:27:24.942)
patience. Is that a personality trait? Well, yeah, yeah. Because I’ve always, I mean, I’ve always had, I’ve always known what I can do and I always felt like I don’t want to be show-offy or anything. So just do it as it comes. And again, like through the years.

Craig (01:27:29.872)
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Because if you meet somebody, yeah.

That’s great.

Jim (01:27:53.13)
you see things that you think… you see a band and you go, oh man, they’re really good and… and then they break up and you never hear from anybody again. And so I just… pacing and patience. And… I mean…

Craig (01:28:08.16)
Dude, you’re wise beyond your years, even when you were little. No, because let me tell you, man, I didn’t get patience till like in the last maybe seven years, maybe 10 if I’m really unlucky. So when I hit 50, maybe I started getting patience, but that’s really, not that I’m the barometer for like humanity, but I mean, I think having patience.

Jim (01:28:23.446)
Mm-mm.

Jim (01:28:28.114)
No, it’s, you know, and I can say that I never knew what was going to happen or how it’s going to happen. But something always happens, which has kind of made it continuous. Like when Henry says, I don’t want to do music anymore, then I meet Daniel Lamois and all of a sudden I’m playing bass in his band and then meeting people who think I’m a bass player.

Craig (01:28:57.844)
Hahaha

Jim (01:28:57.99)
And it’s funny, we were talking about the Coconut Teaser. And I’ve been playing some gigs with Mark Ford playing bass for him, and some guy came to see us. And I was talking to my friend Brian after the show. And this guy came up and said, sorry, I don’t mean to interrupt you guys, but I just want to say I really love your bass playing. I said, oh, thanks. And he said, I’ve been following Mark. I saw him play at the Coconut Teaser. And then my friend Brian said,

Oh, coconut tea, that was your place, Jim. And he’s like, and the guy goes, oh, what? What was that? What man? I said Mother Superior and he goes, Mother Superior. That guy was a great guitar player. I think that was me.

Craig (01:29:40.066)
That’s funny as hell man. Oh my god. That’s a new president of your fan club. And that’s for sure.

Jim (01:29:44.958)
Yeah, and I just did a, you know, the session that I did last week, I was playing bass and same thing, like, you know, people are just taking note of my bass playing. And so that Daniel is that means a lot to me. I played guitar with Daniel when I first started, but he wanted to be a trio. And there’s not much to do on guitar when you play with Daniel, because he’s so unique and great. You kind of want to get out of his way. So that’s that helped with learning funky bass lines.

Craig (01:30:08.048)
Yeah, his music’s yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Jim (01:30:15.382)
But yeah, I think that’s been my thing. I try not to burn out and I try not to panic. I’ve seen so many musicians panic through the years that I have a thing that I tell my friend Anna about that, you know, I call it the Monday. I don’t do Mondays because so many years of, I know all my musician friends spend their whole weekend thinking, what am I gonna do this week?

And Monday is like the day that you would get all the calls from everybody going, we got to do this and we got to do this and we got to do this. You know what I mean? It was always like the panic day. So I usually let Mondays kind of just go by if they didn’t like, don’t worry about anything and I always, I always try to, you know, it’s always in the back of my head to keep making new songs and keep, you know, make sure you got recordings going, but things have been between the Motor Sister record and then.

Craig (01:30:51.73)
Yeah.

Jim (01:31:11.938)
Through My Eyes, which I put out last year with Phil Jones. You know, I’ve put out a couple records in the past couple years, like brand new fresh stuff. So that’s why I’ve, I mentioned earlier, I’m working on a new record with Pearl, and that’s really fun, because it’s always nice to write for situations, you know, and she’s a big fan of, I mean, that’s how it all started with us playing together. They were, her and Scott were mother superior fanatics.

Craig (01:31:39.23)
Yeah.

Jim (01:31:40.226)
They used to come to shows. I remember they came to see us in Colorado. Like, you know, if they were in town, they would just pop up at a gig and, you know, that always meant a lot because I always wanted to be one of those bands that musicians liked as well, you know, so. And so we got that coming and lots of new stuff, always.

Craig (01:31:56.956)
Yeah, I can understand that.

Craig (01:32:05.14)
So let me ask you this, you’ve always had this sort of patience and this sort of almost like, hey, something will happen. Something good will come along. Again, if this is too personal, you don’t have to answer it. Are you like a spiritual guy? Like, do you have some sort of a higher power or do you feel like that’s looking over you? And again, if you’re not comfortable, that’s totally cool. But

Jim (01:32:27.298)
Well, no, I mean, to be honest, I feel for sure that, um… I don’t wanna say something’s looking out for me, but I feel like whatever gift or talent that I was given, that if I use it the right way, then, you know… I do somewhat believe that I don’t think…

I could do all these things by myself, if that makes any sense. I do feel a little bit guided sometimes. Like I was just talking about the panic situation, I remember a different drummer friend of mine saying to me, nothing’s going to happen if you don’t make it happen. It hasn’t really been that way for me. Things have kind of like…

Craig (01:33:02.704)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Jim (01:33:26.486)
happened that make me go okay I’m doing the right thing because something good just happened.

Craig (01:33:32.836)
Making it happen takes a lot of different forms. You know, right.

Jim (01:33:36.01)
Yeah, and I’m not really aggressive with it. I’m not like, I want to call this guy and want to say, hey, we’re, you know, I think I’m more confident enough that it’s like Daniel says, if you do good work, it always comes to the surface. So even all those old records that we made, I’m happy that, you know, people like them and respect them.

Craig (01:33:54.983)
Right.

Jim (01:34:04.15)
It’s always weird when someone says, you know, your album from 1998 is my favorite one they ever did, you know, because then it makes you feel like, well, you didn’t like anything from the last 25 years. But they mean it in the best way. They mean it in the best way. Right, right, right. Yeah.

Craig (01:34:14.157)
Hahaha!

Yeah, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. And if you said, hey, that album he did last year was the best thing, what the fuck, I have 25 years of, that’s all?

Craig (01:34:28.072)
That’s just like the inner critic, you know, coming out. Like, yeah, I feel you on that. No, the reason I asked you that.

Jim (01:34:33.314)
But no, I definitely believe that something helps. And spiritual is a good word. I mean, yes, I’m spiritual. It’s not something that’s written down or that I can explain, but yeah.

Craig (01:34:42.399)
Yeah.

Craig (01:34:54.396)
Yeah, I don’t mean like religion like today in the Judeo-Christian sense of I meant spiritual like a belief in something. Yeah, yeah.

Jim (01:35:02.27)
Yeah, for sure. Because like I said, I don’t feel like, I, like even when someone says, how did you do that? How did you move out here? And I don’t know. You know, and then, you know, just of all the little breaks I have, and then sometimes you go like, oh man, what’s gonna come next? And there’s nice surprises that I could have nothing to do with me making something happen, you know, so.

Craig (01:35:28.116)
Right.

Jim (01:35:30.674)
So yeah, I just try to stay positive too.

Craig (01:35:32.648)
The reason I asked you that, well, the reason I asked you this is because I find most people that have that sort of inner peace that are like, not like super aggressive or like fucking mental about, you know, oh my God. I mean, look, we all have good days and bad days. I’m not talking about that. But you seem like you’ve had like a very, um,

Jim (01:35:47.595)
Uh.

Jim (01:35:50.859)
Mm-hmm.

Craig (01:35:57.476)
a confidence and a belief that you’re going in the right direction. And I find people that are like that. Number one, I tend to be more attracted to them. But number two, they tend to have some sort of spirituality and grounding or humility. I heard something just like last night, someone said, you’re either humble or you’re on your way. You know, like you’re on your way to being humble. You know what I mean? And I find the people that are like that are humble.

Jim (01:36:23.662)
Mm-hmm

Craig (01:36:26.984)
people that have that inner peace and there’s no need to be like, you know, like you said, oh, I was so lucky I got to do those sparks. You weren’t like, yeah, I play those sparks gigs, you know, 21. But there’s a difference and different people will position that differently.

Jim (01:36:42.112)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (01:36:45.426)
It’s, you know, I have a really good music friend from high school, my closest friend in high school, and his favorite band was U2, my favorite band was Sparks, and this other guy that we used to hang out with, Mike, his favorite band was Black Flag. And those guys say to me like, you fucking work with Daniel, you work with Henry Rollins, and you played in Sparks? Like what?

Craig (01:37:12.104)
Yeah.

Jim (01:37:14.794)
You know, it wasn’t, I wasn’t even, that would be an impossibility if that conversation would have never, if I was standing in that room and we were all sharing our records, I would have never said, I’m gonna work with all three of these guys in a few years, you know what I mean?

Craig (01:37:28.744)
Right. Well, that’s what I’m talking about though. You just put one foot in front of the other and you just say, I believe I’m doing the right thing and I’m walking in the right direction. And if I’m not, I’ll get a message and I’ll walk in another direction. Yeah, I like that.

Jim (01:37:32.957)
Yeah.

Jim (01:37:39.794)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess I know what I do, which is basically guitar and singing and so, you know, just stay true to it. And just like I said, like Daniel said, just do good work, you know.

Craig (01:37:53.916)
Yeah, yeah. Thanks, man. I appreciate you answering that. Low points, Jim, what were some low points or dark periods you’ve had to deal with and how’d you get through them?

Jim (01:37:56.899)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (01:38:09.518)
I can’t really say anything’s been low.

Jim (01:38:16.747)
You know.

Jim (01:38:20.306)
Even Mother Superior coming to an end, it just kind of had to end. But I immediately, it opened up the thing for me to make solo stuff. And I know that some people missed the sound of Mother Superior, but then that was kind of taken care of by Motor Sister. And then when Mother Superior fell apart, I was touring with Emmylou Harris, so it wasn’t low.

Wow.

Craig (01:38:51.28)
You’re drawing with me, Lou Harris. Yeah.

Jim (01:38:53.77)
Yeah, I just met Linda Ronson last night. Things are good, you know. So I don’t know. The lowest period for me, I think, was the very just beginning of trying to make connections and, you know, trying to get people to take you seriously or again, I was straight off the boat from Delaware. So like I would meet these guys at Tower Records that were

in bands and they were like already you know rock star ready and uh at first you’re like you know i’m not as cool as that or whatever but like i said those kind of things come and go whereas good music lasts you know so if the guy is like a popular good looking guy then that doesn’t mean it’s going to be like that forever you know so that was something i kind of

Craig (01:39:37.245)
Yes.

Craig (01:39:50.224)
Yeah, that’s more like high school shit anyway to tell you that, you know, it’s like, you know, yeah.

Jim (01:39:52.305)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But man, I don’t know, I can’t really, I mean, I’m totally being honest too, yeah, I just, you know, other than maybe some bad girlfriends or something, but that’s no big deal too, you know. Thank you.

Craig (01:39:58.612)
That’s good.

Craig (01:40:06.388)
Sure, sure. Well, dude, I hope that continues for you. That’s a really good, I’m happy to hear that, yeah. Ever sell a guitar you wish you can get back?

Jim (01:40:16.082)
Nope, not really a guitar collector. I have my Les Paul and my Strat and a couple other guitars. Yes, mm-hmm. So I’ve never really been a buyer of guitars. I’m more a vinyl collector. So I definitely have some records that I sold that I wish I didn’t, but I have a really good record collection, too.

Craig (01:40:27.168)
That’s a Les Paul Deluxe, right? The gold top? Yeah, yeah, all right. I love that guitar.

Craig (01:40:42.14)
Like, like what did you say? What record did you say?

Jim (01:40:45.698)
Um, just dumb things, probably that I’ve replaced, but when I first drove out here as well, I had a Dodge van that I drove from Delaware to California and I had

On the back of the van I had rows of vinyl, and then I went through Texas and there was a crazy rainstorm. And I learned that there were holes in the bottom of the van. So I lost a ton of records coming out here. But yeah, I still, you know, and it’s really great having the radio shows because I get to actually share all this stuff that I have too. And I get to play my records more than I would.

Craig (01:41:13.16)
Ugh.

Craig (01:41:16.736)
That sucks.

Jim (01:41:31.051)
if I didn’t have my radio show.

Craig (01:41:33.328)
Yeah, I’ve read an interview that you did and I could see like the joy you have about those shows of just, you know, you know, just cause you’re such a music fan and a vinyl fan. It was nice reading that. Yeah.

Jim (01:41:40.73)
Yeah, I can’t believe people listen because I play such weird stuff. I mean, I play normal stuff too, but I play weird stuff as well. So I’m really happy that people pay attention.

Craig (01:41:49.672)
What was the first album you ever bought? Do you remember?

Jim (01:41:53.15)
Not really, because they were always, and like I said, my parents were always, I remember introducing the Beatles, and my dad always had records like Elvis and stuff, but I remember getting…

Craig (01:41:58.663)
Okay, right.

Jim (01:42:08.706)
the Beatles Red album, which my mom sent me a bunch of old birthday cards and stuff. And it was my fifth birthday and my mom got me the double Red, 62, 66. And I was, and I guess I was already like obsessed and I was really into like what songs are, like if I saw an album, like what songs are the hits? That was my main question.

Craig (01:42:24.636)
Oh, that’s so thoughtful, man. Yeah, that’s a, that’s.

Jim (01:42:37.142)
And my mom looked at the Beatles record and she said, oh, these are all hits. And I just thought, this is my band. So that was when I was five. And that’s the earliest proof I have of this was actually my record. And that’s a good answer. So I’ll say Beatles 60. But I bought 45s. My mom, she would buy Kamli Twitty and Tammy Winnett and stuff for herself. And then she would say, you want to pick out a 45? So it would either be, I mean, 3 Dog Night.

Craig (01:42:41.245)
Hahaha.

Jim (01:43:07.566)
Grassroots, Jackson 5, those are the ones that I liked when I was pre-ten. Yeah, yeah.

Craig (01:43:13.5)
Yeah, those are all that was all great music back then. Man. All right. So this is probably the toughest question for you. Top three desert Island disc just for now, just for this moment. Cause I know that obviously that changes all the time.

Jim (01:43:28.402)
Yeah, okay, just for now. Beatles White album is always my go-to Beatles. And if it was up to me, the other ones would be Beatles too, but I’ll spare us for a moment. And I’ll say Squeeze East Side Story. It’s one of my favorite albums ever. And The Police Synchronicity Perfection.

Craig (01:43:48.976)
Yeah, it’s a great record. I had Andy Summers on the show recently. It’s interesting talk. Yeah. It was interesting talking to him. It was kind of funny. Um, and then I have, uh, different, um, what’s, what’s his, the guitar player’s name, a whole Tilbrook. Yeah, he’s coming. He’s supposedly coming on here in a few months. So I’m looking forward to that. Yeah. I’m looking forward to that one. Yeah, dude, if you, you know what, man, when, uh, I’m putting the questions together for that.

Jim (01:43:53.54)
Amen.

Jim (01:43:58.623)
Love.

Jim (01:44:05.395)
Oh, Glenn Tilbrook, yeah.

Oh, excellent. Oh, good, good. He’s an amazing guitar player.

Craig (01:44:17.725)
I’ll shoot you an email or a text if you got a question. I’m gonna ask them because you’re such a fan Yeah, yeah, I’ll do that. That’ll be good. That’ll be good

Jim (01:44:20.746)
I would love that.

Jim (01:44:26.722)
Thank you.

Craig (01:44:27.632)
Yeah. Well, it’s you. It sounds like you really love them. So.

Jim (01:44:31.082)
Yeah, I do. I already thought of a good question.

Craig (01:44:34.516)
Good. Most important lessons you’ve learned from getting older.

Jim (01:44:43.714)
slow down and don’t…

Jim (01:44:51.53)
like in strange places.

Be straight. Like, you know, I just, there was one time I was in Russia when I was in Sparks and we ended up at some party and I like fell or something, you know, just stuff like that. So I think slow down is a good answer. Just like take it easy, you know.

Craig (01:45:16.924)
Yeah, no need to rush.

Jim (01:45:19.52)
Yeah.

Craig (01:45:21.616)
Alright, tough question. What do you like most about yourself?

Craig (01:45:27.908)
Ha ha

Jim (01:45:28.534)
Hey.

Jim (01:45:32.163)
I don’t know.

Jim (01:45:36.362)
I mean, I do know. I like to think that, and I’ve had a couple friends tell me that I’m funny. And that almost means more to me than like somebody saying, you’re a good songwriter because, you know, I love…

Craig (01:45:43.935)
Hmm.

Jim (01:45:53.838)
Steve Martin and Richard Pryor and Lenny Bruce and all the classic comedy stuff. So a lot of that and I read Mad Magazine. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It’s amazing. I know. I know. But I like to think like if you get to know me, if you’re my friend, we’ll have some pretty funny conversations.

Craig (01:46:02.048)
None of which could be aired today. We’ve really come a long way, haven’t we? But not the right direction.

Craig (01:46:18.304)
Cool, cool. Most important thing you learned from your dad.

Jim (01:46:24.694)
G. I mean, pretty much, you know, my dad’s a pretty good singer. He’s got a good kind of low country voice and a lot of that stuff. I’m not saying that…

Craig (01:46:26.152)
That’s G chord. That’s great.

Jim (01:46:46.466)
But yeah, I never wanted to sing like my dad or whatever, but he taught me a lot about music and he fed that thing that I was feeling, and it was always supported. And he’s very proud to this day. If you meet my dad somewhere, he’ll be showing you the Motor Sister album.

Craig (01:47:02.888)
That’s awesome.

Craig (01:47:08.072)
That’s awesome.

Craig (01:47:13.328)
That’s really cool. That’s the number one, number one commonality between successful musicians is that they had, I mean, in my, you know, population of almost a thousand people have interviewed, the number one characteristic is they all had supportive parents. Yeah. By a long shot. How about your mom? Most yeah. Most important thing you learned. Yeah.

Jim (01:47:14.614)
Yeah, but my parents were cool.

Jim (01:47:27.276)
Mm-hmm.

No, it’s the same thing. My mom is the same way, you know, and they’re, they feel the same way. And they, they’re just so happy that I do things and, uh, that I actually made some things happen, you know, and I’ll see them. Like I’m going to the East coast with Mark Ford in May, and they’re going to come to that show and it’ll be cool for them to see that.

Craig (01:47:50.484)
Oh, that is nice. That’s really cool. So besides typing, do you have any hobbies or interests outside of music? Your typing prowess precedes you.

Jim (01:48:00.912)
That one always gets out there. Yes. No, it’s pretty much all music. Especially since between playing and like doing my radio show, because I would say I really enjoy putting the radio shows together too, but that’s still more of the same.

Craig (01:48:09.713)
Yeah.

Craig (01:48:20.744)
Yeah.

Jim (01:48:22.486)
But typing just comes along, it just helps with the radio stuff in the blog.

Craig (01:48:26.112)
Yeah.

Craig (01:48:29.864)
But dude, typing, you took typing, they used to teach it in school. Yeah, me too.

Jim (01:48:34.162)
We had to take typing and just for whatever reason, I was just like, it just made sense to me. And I was just, so yeah, I used to win my years in high school. I always won the best typist.

Craig (01:48:39.92)
Yeah, I know.

Craig (01:48:46.908)
That’s so funny. Yeah, my kids will be like, dad, how’d you get so fast on a keyboard? I’m like, I know this. I, yeah, typing school, right? No, no, my kids are always like, how did you get so fast? I’m like, I took typing in school and they’re like, what? They’ve never even seen a typewriter, maybe an old one we had here.

Jim (01:48:50.334)
It was crazy because like, you know, you go, you’re in 12th grade and they go ahead. Sorry.

Jim (01:48:59.724)
Mmmm

Jim (01:49:03.17)
So in 12th grade when they’re trying to have the guidance counselor, you have a meeting to find out what you’re going to do with the rest of your life. They’re all trying to get me to be an office job, you know, and I said, nope, going to LA. I should probably get going soon. I hate to cut us off. Are we? Because I… Okay, great.

Craig (01:49:11.209)
Ha ha!

Craig (01:49:20.26)
Yeah, two questions left, two questions left. Biggest change in your personality over the last 10 years, Jim, and has that change been intentional or just a natural part of aging?

Jim (01:49:35.494)
always intentional trying to be better, a better person. I think I just, I have a lot of really good friends right now and.

Just the respect that I get is always satisfying. And again, I hate to say patience, but that’s a big one. I think the patience helps on all parts from helping things to happen and not ruining things.

Jim (01:50:17.174)
But yeah, just being a better person, you know, and be it personal or professional, you know. I wanna sing better and play better and, you know, be nice to people.

Craig (01:50:31.188)
Thanks, man. Well, let me tell people where to find you and what you got going on. First of all, we didn’t talk a lot about the music you did with Phil Jones, but Jim’s got a record he did with Phil Jones, the drummer that I mentioned. Two now, that’s right. When is, and, okay. And you can get those, go to wils It’s bandcamp, Wilson Jones. So go to wils

Jim (01:50:32.168)
Mm-hmm.

Jim (01:50:46.062)
Two now. Through my eyes and now playing.

Jim (01:50:59.318)
Yes.

Craig (01:51:01.356)
Also, you can check out Jim’s radio show. If you’ve got a SoundCloud and look up the vinyl shelf, it’s on there. And you can find follow him on Facebook under Jim Wilson, Instagram under. Swing and pipe with no G S W I N G I N pipe. I’ll let you leave that story to your imagination. And also if you are interested in working with Jim, uh, doing, having hiring him to do some sessions for you, either guitar, bass or vocals, you can email him at top.

Jim (01:51:14.843)
Yes. Swing and push.

Craig (01:51:30.164)
B-T-O-P-B-E-A-T at aol.com. Just please send him like maybe a demo of the music and what you’re looking for so he can then get back to you intelligently and say, oh yeah, this is a fit for me or no, it’s not a fit for me, but here’s somebody maybe you could be looking into. So just be thoughtful and respectful of his time and that’s that. Any final words, anything else I missed, anything you wanna promote that I left out?

Jim (01:51:47.886)
That sounds great.

Jim (01:51:57.602)
No, but there is a brand new single too. It’s a digital single with me and Phil Jones. It’s called Never Go Back and it’s really nice. And eventually we have another batch of single songs that we’re going to release throughout this year and then have a compilation of them for an album or a CD for next year. But there’s great vinyl stuff on Phil’s bandcamp page and you know, I appreciate everybody for the support and thanks for listening to the music.

Craig (01:52:25.768)
Right on man. We’ll check all that out and if you haven’t dug into Jim’s catalog, go in and do it, you’ll appreciate it. Man, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Cool, thank you man. Make sure you hit me up if you come to Tampa. Everybody, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this, share it on your socials with your friends. We appreciate your support. Thanks so much to Jim Wilson for spending time with us and most important.

Jim (01:52:27.316)
Lots more to come.

Jim (01:52:36.95)
Thank you, Craig. That was great, great conversation. Thank you.

Jim (01:52:43.266)
Yes.

Craig (01:52:53.376)
Remember that happiness is a choice, so choose wisely. Be nice, go play a guitar, and have fun. Till next time, peace and love, everybody. I am out. Jim, thank you so much, brother. Hang on one sec.

Jim (01:53:01.486)
Peace.